Clinched Highway Mapping

oscar_voss · Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 622 Location: Arlington VA

I traveled I-15 Business in Lake Elsinore twice last month.

(1) There are several I-15 Business shields along Lakeshore Dr., both north and south of Main Street, consistent with the routing now in the Highway Browser. Except this sign at Lakeshore and Central (CA 74), indicating the business route stops there rather than following CA 74 several blocks east to I-15:

Also, there is no Route 15 Business signage on I-15 at the CA 74 exit. This suggests that this may be the unusual BL (kind of like US 219 Truck in Ridgway PA) that doesn't both begin and end at its parent route.

(2) There is Route 15 Business signage on I-15 one exit to the south, at Main Street (the only exit on I-15 with such signage). There is also at least one I-15 BL shield on Main Street, and I recall seeing another one not shown in GMSV. This makes me wonder whether we have a three-legged I-15 business route in Lake Elsinore (the third leg being Main St. between I-15 and Graham, where it joins the route now shown in the HB), or instead the route was changed and the signage hasn't completely caught up to it.

The AARoads Interstate Guide for I-15 business routes says a 1991 log confirms the "three-leggedness" of the Lake Elsinore business route, including the leg from Main St south on Lakeshore Dr. back to I-15 via Diamond Drive. I'm pretty sure I saw I-15BL signage on that southern leg, though I didn't snap a photo and can't find it in GMSV.

I poked around the CalTrans website, not sure whether it has an official log of Interstate/US business routes, or even whether such routes are managed by CalTrans rather than local governments. Maybe one of us with a Thomas Guide for Riverside County or other authoritative local map can clarify?

If both the existing route in the HB (truncated to CA 74) and the Main Street routings are valid, maybe add Main Street between I-15 and Graham to the HB as I-15BSLak, even if it's not signed as a spur?

Bickendan · Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Posts: 1018 Location: Portland, OR

My latest Riverside County Thomas Guide is from 2003 and it doesn't even show the business routes.

IIRC, the only business route I recall seeing in a Thomas Guide was BL 80 in Sacramento.

oscar_voss · Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 622 Location: Arlington VA

I re-visited Lake Elsinore last week. My closer look confirms that we have three signed I-15 business route legs there, two of which are in the Highway Browser and the third omitted.

All the business route segments are signed as "loops", even though at least one really should be a spur (I understand Caltrans doesn't do business spurs, it's a business loop or nothing). The Main Street BL segment is the best-signed one in Lake Elsinore, and the only one signed on I-15, with signage not only on I-15 but also at the end of the ramp to Main Street from southbound I-15, and a route marker several blocks to the south near Main and Pottery Street. The segment between Main Street and CA 74 is also well-signed, with relatively new-looking I-15BL signs on northbound Lakeshore Dr. near its intersections with Mohr St. and Bushman St. The segment from Main Street south to I-15 has only one relatively new-looking marker, on southbound Lakeshore at Diamond Dr. indicating that the business route follows Diamond to I-15.

Also, the sign assembly at the beginning of this thread, from two years ago, is no longer there. However, there also is no signage indication that the business route follows CA 74 back to I-15, or extends north of CA 74. I drove every possible road that the business route might follow to I-15. No BL markers in either direction on any of those roads, or in either direction of I-15 at the CA 74 exit or the two interchanges to the north. So I doubt that the removal of the sign assembly reflects a new north end for the business route.

I suggest adding a second business loop for the missing third leg, consisting of Main Street between I-15 and Graham Ave. (How should we name it, to not conflict with the existing Lake Elsinore business route?) Andy Field's guide to Interstate 15 business loops indicates that would be technically incorrect. It cites a Caltrans signage log from 1991 (which I need to get, and find out if there's an updated version). The log has the two Interstate business routes in Lake Elsinore overlapping between I-15 and Graham Ave., with one branching northwest to CA 74 via Graham Ave. and Lakeshore Drive, and the other branching southeast back to I-15 via Lakeshore and Railroad Canyon Rd. (now Diamond Drive between Lakeshore and I-15). Both business routes, so defined, connect to I-15 at the only place where the freeway has business route signage. However, doing so would break users' list files, so I think it better to just add the missing Main Street leg as a separate business route.

Truncating the route now in HB to end at CA 74 would also break list files, but we could collapse the north end so that the only points in use on that segment (CA74_W, I-15_N) are folded into a new CA74 point at the Lakeshore/CA 74 intersection, with the old labels hidden. That way, users who traveled the entire business route as now shown in the HB would still be credited, but only for the part between I-15_S and the Lakeshore/CA 74 intersection, while any who only traveled CA 74 between I-15 and Lakeshore would be credited for zero miles on the business loop.

I can post photos and more details as needed.

oscar_voss · Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 622 Location: Arlington VA

Bumping this to get any input on how to add the missing leg of Lake Elsinore's three-legged I-15BL, before I draft and submit files. My suggestion:

-- keep the existing route I-15BLLak, Lake Elsinore as is, except truncate its north end to the CA 74/Lakeshore Dr. intersection, and perhaps rename the MainSt point to something like I-15BLLkE

-- add a new route file for I-15BLLkE, Lake Elsinore (Main St.) to include just Main St. between I-15 and Graham Ave. (where the Main St. leg meets the legs already in the Highway Browser).

oscar_voss · Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 622 Location: Arlington VA

In the Travel Mapping DB.

<locking>