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oscar_voss
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA
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 Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: QC/NB: TCH realignments, and new A-85 segments |
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When I drove QC 185/Trans-Canada Highway (main) earlier today (after connecting to NB TCH 2 at St. Leonard), I saw two newly-twinned segments, parts of which are on new alignments, that are both now signed as A-85. One is between Degelis QC and the QC/NB border (the roadway has also been realigned on the NB side of the border, to tie into the new QC segment). The other is near St.-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!. Construction is underway to twin QC 185 between those segments, which for now is still signed as QC 185. There is no construction underway to connect the A-85 segment already in the HB with the new segments.
The weather was rotten coming up today, so no photos and I probably missed some details. The weather should be better tomorrow morning, so I'll schlep back down there (also need to look for St.-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! postcards to send my nieces) to flesh out this post. I'll edit this accordingly.
I may find more A-route additions/extensions to catch up on, as I work my way west through Quebec. |
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froggie
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 848
Location: Norfolk, VA (when not out to sea)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Are you attending the Quebec City meet and that's why you're up that way?
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Froggie
http://www.ajfroggie.com |
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rickmastfan67
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 2031
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: QC/NB: TCH realignments, and new A-85 segments |
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| oscar_voss wrote: | | I may find more A-route additions/extensions to catch up on, as I work my way west through Quebec. |
A-35 needs to have it's exit numbers updated per Wikipedia & OSM. You can even see some of the new exit numbers via StreetView.
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Also, A-730 needs to have a point label changed.
A-30 > 1
There is clear evidence via StreetView that the A-30 interchange is posted as Exit #1 on A-730. |
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oscar_voss
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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A-35 reportedly was extended south earlier this week, to St.-Sebastien. So that route file will need to be edited anyway. I already have added that to my itinerary, so I can confirm all the new exit numbers.
I'll also be checking possible updates needed for A-73 and A-5. With construction season ending, it looks like other A- routes will be safe for at least another year. |
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si404
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: |
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http://wegenwiki.nl says the A73 gap was plugged on the 8th, with the A35 opening the same day.
They also have exit numbers, but I don't know their source. |
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oscar_voss
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| si404 wrote: | | http://wegenwiki.nl says the A73 gap was plugged on the 8th, with the A35 opening the same day. |
No, what that site mentioned was the twinning of a Super 2 segment that was already part of A-73. There is still a 13-km gap (to be filled late summer 2015 at the earliest) between the part of A-73 in the Highway Browser, and a new 5-km A-73 segment east of St.-Georges which is not yet in the HB.
I'll post more detail on the new and future A-73 extensions (which I checked out earlier today), later in a separate topic. |
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oscar_voss
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: |
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On the part of the TCH realignment in New Brunswick, to tie into the new A-85 (Degelis) segment: OSM shows the new alignment, and the new exit 1 in NB, connecting to the old TCH alignment on Madawaska Ave. NB's exit 1 is a RIRO only to and from the southbound lanes of TCH 2. On the other side of the border, A-85 exit 1 is a RIRO only to and from the northbound lanes, connecting the new highway to the old alignment (there called Ave. de la Madawaska). I would treat them as separate exits, with new waypoint 1 in NB placed on the overpass just east of the border.
There is still cleanup work being done on the NB side, with only two lanes of traffic past the Edmundston airport while the other two lanes are redone to complete the tie into the new A-85 and to disconnect them from Madawaska Ave.
I have a GPS read for the approximate location for where the new alignment peels away from the old one, which I can provide if needed. But I think OSM is enough to place the waypoint for the now-closed intersection with Madawaska Ave. |
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yakra
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 2600
Location: Area Code 207
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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If we were to invoke the one-point-per-interchange rule, waypoint 1 would be placed on the overpass as you suggest. No different from how you suggest handling it as two separate exits. 1PPI rule notwithstanding, I would also treat this as two separate exits -- at least on the NB side. I'd put the new waypoint 1 midway between the ramp gores on the eastbound/southbound side of the highway, which to my eyes (comparing Google vs Bing satellite imagery in the HB) is just about exactly where an *OldNB2 point would otherwise go, for the new alignment peeling away from the old.
I'll probably just use OSM to make my edits, but am still curious to see what you have for GPS coords.
So, am I correct in assuming this whole shebang is open to traffic? You were driving west on the TCH, but did you verify in the field that the NB exit is signed as Exit 1?
I've gone ahead and edited my local file, assuming Exit 1 is signed as Exit 1. For border coords I used:
QC/NB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.484975&lon=-68.484703 |
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oscar_voss
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| yakra wrote: |
So, am I correct in assuming this whole shebang is open to traffic? You were driving west on the TCH, but did you verify in the field that the NB exit is signed as Exit 1? |
I drove it in both directions (on different days -- I had to go back there to tie up loose ends from my initial pass), so I spotted the Exit 1 sign in New Brunswick while driving SB, and the Exit 1 sign in Quebec while driving NB. New Brunswick does not have an Exit 1 from the northbound lanes, only from the southbound lanes.
All traffic now follows the new alignment, though reduced to two lanes while work is completed on the New Brunswick side of the border. |
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yakra
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 2600
Location: Area Code 207
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks!
HA! Neato how it's Exit 1 on both sides of the border -- to start a northbound route in QC, and an eastbound route in NB!  |
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deanej
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| I personally think of it as one interchange straddling the border. Were it not on the border, it would be handled with just a single point, so I don't have any suggestions on how to handle it here. |
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yakra
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 2600
Location: Area Code 207
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| deanej wrote: | | I personally think of it as one interchange straddling the border. Were it not on the border, it would be handled with just a single point |
I agree.
What really makes me favor adding the second point on the New Brunswick side is that it can fill in for an *OldNB2 point where the new and old alignments diverge. If I maintained Quebec (which I don't) I'd probably leave out the point for the exit on that side, folding it into the QC/NB point. That's to be left up to QC's maintainer (Tim, right?), though. |
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oscar_voss
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:41 am Post subject: |
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A few more notes:
The split of the new A-85 from the old TCH alignment appears to be around the QC 295 overpass (exit 14) in Degelis. Satellite imagery indicates a closed road connection to Ave. de la Madawaska, which is part of the old TCH. I'll have to review other GPS readings I took further north, near St.-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!, but I suspect any realignments there were just short curve straightenings and other minor alignment changes, which we can probably ignore, so that leaves us with just one major realignment.
The last exit northbound, before A-85 markers give way to QC 185 markers, is at the exit for Ave. Principale on the north side of Degelis. There is a QC 185 marker on the through lanes overhead at that exit, but an A-85 marker (no FIN end banner) north of the exit. The highway remains twinned for some distance after that marker, then continues as two lanes (construction underway to twin that segment, expected completion in 2015) until four lanes resume just south of exit 29.
The first exit for the other new A-85 segment is exit 29, while the last one is exit 47 for St.-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! There is one A-85 marker southbound just south of exit 29, and one A-85 marker northbound north of exit 47 (no FIN banner on either one). However, the highway reduces to two lanes less than a mile north of exit 47, and by the time it reaches the first at-grade intersection, signage at that intersection indicates QC 185 is both north and south of that intersection, so A-85 clearly doesn't get that far.
With how we've handled in the past ambiguous freeway ends at non-intersection points (see all the jabbering we did about ON 417 in Arnprior), I think this means the southern A-85 new segment goes from the Ave. Principale exit north of Degelis to the NB/QC border, and exit 29 to exit 47 for the other new segment.
More to follow, especially when next week I return home, and re-unite with the hardware I need to extract readings from my handheld GPS. |
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yakra
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 2600
Location: Area Code 207
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| oscar_voss wrote: | | I suspect any realignments there were just short curve straightenings and other minor alignment changes, which we can probably ignore, so that leaves us with just one major realignment. |
Unsure if you're including the St.-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! to Temiscouata-sur-le-Lac segment, which bypassed Chemin du Golf, including the QC232_N waypoint. Google satellite shows how it looked before the new alignment was built. |
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oscar_voss
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| yakra wrote: | | oscar_voss wrote: | | I suspect any realignments there were just short curve straightenings and other minor alignment changes, which we can probably ignore, so that leaves us with just one major realignment. |
Unsure if you're including the St.-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! to Temiscouata-sur-le-Lac segment, which bypassed Chemin du Golf, including the QC232_N waypoint. Google satellite shows how it looked before the new alignment was built. |
That could've been one of the places where my car's nav system acted like I'd gone off road. When I get back home, I'll have to check that against the handheld GPS reads I took in the places where the nav system flagged a change in alignment, and do other checks for bypassed waypoints in the existing route files, etc. |
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