Do these CANPE routes end where I think they do?

 
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yakra



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Posts: 2600
Location: Area Code 207

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Do these CANPE routes end where I think they do? Reply with quote

Inspired by some of the ambiguities in this thread, I'm making a list of things that deserve a second look.

PE2:
Q: Does "west" end continue northeast on Dalton Ave to PE12?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: No coverage
GMSV'13: A decisive No.
Froggie: No
Google says Yes; the other tile maps say No.
A: No

PE15:
Q: Does PE15 continue S of PE1/2?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Yes (PE1/2 S W E; StPetRd S N E W)
GMSV'13: Vestigial signage still at StPetRd. PE15 signage at PE1/2 west has disappeared. Depending on how much I wanna read into these signs, without a PE15 shield pointing toward City Centre, well...
A: Making an executive decision here and declaring that signage wasn't completely updated when PE1 & 2 were relocated onto the bypass. At the south end of things, there's no definitive "city" route of PE2 for 15 to connect to; I found at least three different signed routes... It seems to be a case of trailblazers lacking TO signage. That, and PE2 is only signed onto the bypass at either end of the PE1 multiplex. Calling this one a "No."

PE105:
Q: Does it go N of PriRd?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Indeterminate
GMSV'13: Indeterminate
Bing doesn't label the route. Other tile maps say no. MapArt says yes.
A: Going with the no-build option & calling it a No.

PE116:
Q: Does east end continue past PE1 to PE246?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Signage at and east of PE1. No coverage at PE246.
GMSV'13: Yes. (south, north)
Google says Yes; the other tile maps say No. MapArt atlas suggests no.
A: Yes. Extend.

PE117:
Q: Does it continue north on BraRd?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: No.
All tile maps & MapArt say No.
A: No.

PE120:
Q: Does north end continue past PE180?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: No.
Google says Yes; the other tile maps say No.
A: No.

PE125:
Q: Does east end continue past PE2?
GIS: No
Map: Probably not; road discontinuous
GMSV: O RLY?
GMSV'13: pavement ends
Google says Yes; the other tile maps say No. Looks like a Jeep trail on Sat view & Mapnik.
Original Answer: If it's not sloppy signage, I have no better point to call End. Going with the no-build option.
A: Meh. Extended to end of pavement.

PE129:
Q: Does north end continue past PE127 to PE11/128?
GIS: No
Map: Probably not; Road not shown
GMSV: No.
Google says Yes; the other tile maps & MapArt say No. Looks like a Jeep trail on Sat view & Mapnik.
A: No.

PE146:
Q: Does west end continue past PE148?
GIS: No
Map: Two segments. Duvar Rd Jeep trail not shown.
GMSV: No coverage anywhere.
GMSV'13: No signage at PE14. There's this at PE143.
Google: Yes, one long segment. MapArt, MQ & Yahoo: 2 segments. Bing & Mapnik No. Duvar Rd a Jeep trail on Sat view & Mapnik.
Original Answer: Interesting, but... Nothing to see here. Going with the no-build.
A: So I guess it goes the whole nine yards, eh? Even Duvar Rd? I still can't shake the idea that it's minimally passable at points, but hey, I haven't been there. The road at the west end in GMSV doesn't look so Hi-Standard either. I guess I'll extend it, though not with utmost confidence.

PE152:
Q: Does it continue east?
GIS: No
Map: Probably not?
GMSV: No coverage
GMSV'13: No signage at south/east end. Agrees with Froggie.
Froggie: no PE 152 signs south of the middle of Northport.
A: No. Leave as is.

PE156:
Q: Does it continue NE to close the gap to PE14 on BackSetRd?
GIS: No
Map: indeterminate
GMSV: No coverage
GMSV'13: No signage as PE156 N approached BackSetRd. PE156 signed from PE14.
All tile maps say No.
Froggie: Yes
A: Eh! Extend it...

PE157:
Q: Does west end continue past PE155 to PE156?
GIS: No
Map: Probably not; Road not shown
GMSV: No coverage
GMSV'13: a definitive No, including an ENDS/FIN.
Google says Yes; the other tile maps say No.
A: Calling it a No.

PE158:
Q: GMSVed W end / PE155 yet for any surprises?
A: Ends at PE156. Church View Rd impassable.
Remove ChuViewRd from PE155.

PE162:
Q: Does it end at PE12 or the water?
GIS: the water
Map: indeterminate
GMSV: PE12
GMSV'13: PE12, including an ENDS.
Google says PE12; the other tile maps & MapArt say water.
A: PE12. Truncate.

PE168:
Q: Does it end at End, or the shaping point?
GIS 11.0: End
GIS 12.0: shaping point
Map: End
GMSV: No coverage
GMSV'13: Coverage as far as the shaping point; no signage there, except "All persons must report to the office", and a gate. Looks like private property beyond that.
MapArt, Google, Yahoo, MQ: End. Bing: shaper. Mapnik: ambiguous.
A: truncate? Truncate.

PE176:
Q: Does it end at PE14 or the water?
GIS: the water
Map: indeterminate
GMSV: No coverage
GMSV'13: water
MapArt & all tile maps say water, but Mapnik ambiguous.
A: water

PE179:
Q: Does it end at PE2 or End?
GIS: End
Map: indeterminate (PE2?)
GMSV: East of PE2, presumably End.
Bing, MQ: PE2. Yahoo: End. Mapnik: ambiguous.
A: End.


Last edited by yakra on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:26 am; edited 51 times in total
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oscar_voss



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On PE 15, I saw signage south of 1/2, but also signage at the 1/2 junction indicating 15 did not continue past there (I don't remember what kind of signage). Signage south of 1/2 for this route as well as 236 seemed to me like stray old signage, like the many PE 2 signs along the old alignment of that route in Charlottetown.

So I'd go with what the GIS says.

I might have an answer on the west end of PE 2, after I'm back home from Florida next week.
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yakra



Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 2600
Location: Area Code 207

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you PM me about PE15 (and/or 236) a while back? I know there was something you brought up re:PE that I dropped on the floor...
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froggie



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Location: Norfolk, VA (when not out to sea)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
PE2:
Q: Does "west" end continue northeast on Dalton Ave to PE12?


From what I recall of signage (we stayed in Tignish our 1st night on PEI), the answer is no.

I may have answers to a few others you posted...I'll double-check my photos when I get home.
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yakra



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PE212:
Q: Does SW end continue past PE1?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Yes
Google says Yes; the other tile maps & MapArt say No.
Whither the end? Change in pavement/centerline? End of road?
Edited my local file on flimsy evidence; may or may not submit...


PE214:
Q: Does N end continue past PE21?
GIS: Yes
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: No from PE21 (both directions), Yes from 214 N.
MQ: not labeled N of PE216. Mapnik ambiguous. All others (& MapArt) yes.
A: Yes.

PE217:
Q: Does N end continue past PE218 to the beach?
GIS: beach
Map: beach
GMSV: PE217 yes, 218 W no, 218 E no coverage.
GMSV'13: 218 E no
Google & Bing PE218. MapArt & Yahoo beach. MQ not labeled. Mapnik ambiguous.
A: beach

PE222:
Q: Does S end continue past PE2 to the water?
GIS: water
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: No. There's even an END sign.
GMSV'13: PE2 West yes, other directions no. Oh, bother.
Google & Mapnik PE2. MapArt, Bing & Yahoo water. MQ not labeled.
A: truncate? Meh, I'm inclined to go with the no-build option...

PE231:
Q: NE end at NewLonRd?
GIS: NewLonRd
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Indicated both ways from PE224. Neither a straight-ahead nor END from PE231. No signage on NewLonRd.
MapArt, Google & Yahoo NewLonRd. Bing PE224. MQ not labeled. Mapnik ambiguous.
A: NewLonRd (No-Build)

PE236:
Q: Does S end continue past RoyRd?
GIS: RoyRd
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: END at Brighton Rd.
Google & Mapnik: Brighton Rd. Bing & Yahoo: Melody / Sleepy Hollow. MQ not labeled.
A: Extended

PE241:
Q: NewLonRd, right?
GIS: NewLonRd
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Signed from PE224. No Signage on NewLonRd: no END, turn onto Toronto.
Google: PE224. Bing: Not marked S of TorRd. Yahoo, MQ & Mapnik: NewLonRd.
A: Extended

PE321, 322, 328:
Restart browser & look at GMSV
Done. Everything should stay as is.

PE342:
Q: Does E end continue past PE3?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: No
All tile maps say No.
A: No

PE343:
Q: Does NW end continue past PE3 to PE342?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Yes (1 2 3 4 5)
Google: Yes. All others no.
Froggie: No. (source?)
A: Yes. Extend.
Q: Does SE end continue past EastRoyRd?
GIS: No
Map: Indeterminate
GMSV: Clearly shown at 3/342 as Froggie noted. Yet there's this, which seems to match up with the little hook shown on the tourism map. Could it be that PEI is one of those places that likes to post trailblazers and leave off the [TO]? Ugh...
All tile maps say No.
A: Let me just find a solid surface to bash my head into...
Ah. OK. If PE2 in Charlottetown is any indication, PE does like to post trailblazers and leave off the [TO]. There's no 343 signage heading south from PE3, FWIW. This may not necessarily mean much, but hey. I don't know what to say about that little hook south @ EastRoyRd. My inclination is to go with the GIS and leave this as is.


PE344:
Q: Does S end continue past PorRd to PE311?
GIS: No
Map: Nyeah, possibly...
GMSV: Yes
Google: Yes. All others no.
A: GMSV @ PE311; extend
Q: Does N end continue past PE311?
GIS: No
Map: Maybe not?
GMSV: Signs point north, but how far?
A: Map-O? Either way, can't find a better end.


Last edited by yakra on Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:32 am; edited 24 times in total
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froggie



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 848
Location: Norfolk, VA (when not out to sea)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went back and dug through my photos. Also adding another map to the mix, I happened to find my 2009 MapArt Atlantic Canada atlas.

Quote:
PE105:
Q: Does it go N of PriRd?


The MapArt atlas suggests yes. I took some photos but they're inconclusive.

Quote:
PE116:
Q: Does east end continue past PE1 to PE246?


Signage at TCH 1 says yes (I have photos from 2 directions). MapArt atlas suggests no.

Quote:
PE117:
Q: Does it continue north on BraRd?


MapArt atlas suggests no. My photos were inconclusive.

Quote:
PE129:
Q: Does north end continue past PE127 to PE11/128?


No. Verified by my photo of the 11/128 junction. MapArt atlas concurs

Quote:
PE146:
Q: Does west end continue past PE148?


I missed photo opportunity along PE 14. MapArt atlas shows the 2 separate segments, with the western segment between PE 14/Howards Cove and PE 143.

Quote:
PE152:
Q: Does it continue east?


If you're referring to the south end in Northport, I'd argue "no". We went down to the end of Northport Shore Rd, which is actually dirt. There were no PE 152 signs south of the middle of Northport.

Quote:
PE156:
Q: Does it continue NE to close the gap to PE14 on BackSetRd?


I have a photo with signage that says "yes".

Quote:
PE158:
Q: GMSVed W end / PE155 yet for any surprises?


MapArt atlas suggests no.

Quote:
PE162:
Q: Does it end at PE12 or the water?


MapArt atlas also suggests water. I missed photo opportunity on PE 12.

Quote:
PE168:
Q: Does it end at End, or the shaping point?


MapArt atlas suggests the end.

Quote:
PE176:
Q: Does it end at PE14 or the water?


MapArt atlas suggests the water. I missed a photo opportunity along PE 14.

Quote:
PE212:
Q: Does SW end continue past PE1?


MapArt atlas suggests no. My photo was inconclusive.

Quote:
PE214:
Q: Does N end continue past PE21?


MapArt atlas suggests yes.

Quote:
PE217:
Q: Does N end continue past PE218 to the beach?


MapArt atlas clearly shows it as a yes.

Quote:
PE222:
Q: Does S end continue past PE222 to the water?


MapArt atlas suggests water.

Quote:
PE231:
Q: NE end at NewLonRd?


MapArt atlas suggests yes. We actually drove PE 224 enroute to dinner one evening. Wish I'd taken more photos.

Quote:
PE236:
Q: Does S end continue past RoyRd?


Given that it's within the Charlottetown city limits at this point, it's quite possible we have a case similar to PE 11 in Summerside where the route exists but is city-maintained and thus is not in the GIS database. There is clearly PE 236 signage along what Google calls "Capital Dr" (old TCH 1), but as Oscar noted earlier, this could be remnant signage, just like the extensive PE 2 signage within downtown Charlottetown.

Quote:
PE321, 322, 328:


If it's what I think you're looking for, PE 322 is not signed north of PE 2.

Quote:
PE342:
Q: Does E end continue past PE3?


No.

Quote:
PE343:
Q: Does NW end continue past PE3 to PE342?


No, but on the other end, PE343 does return back to PE 3 along East Royalty Rd, meeting PE 3 at the same intersection as PE 342.
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yakra



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Posts: 2600
Location: Area Code 207

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q: Does PE25A exist between PE25 & PE6, SW of Covehead?
GIS: No
Map: Prolly not
GMSV: No
A: No. Rename point on PE6 to WestCovRd.


Last edited by yakra on Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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yakra



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:04 am, Oscar wrote:
PE 15 and 236 signage extend south of the Charlottetown bypass (TCH 1) into the city, even though the Highway Browser has both routes ending at or north of the bypass. There are no "end" signs at the south endpoints in the HB, and PEI is pretty good about "end" signage. The end sign for PE 15 is at St. Peter's Road; for PE 236, at Brighton Road.

Of course, there's lots of stray old signage for PE 2 within the city, but signage on PE 2 north of the city clearly shows it rerouted onto the bypass instead of continuing into the city. Not so clear for PE 15 and PE 236. Do shapefiles put their south ends where you have them?

Also, I went to Prince Edward Island National Park, whose three route ends (13, 15, 25) we discussed on the forum. No signage indicating that those routes end or don't end at the park boundary or entrance booths, or at Gulf Shores Parkway. We can leave those as is.

I posted separately two point requests, on PE 15 and PE 248, unrelated to my questions about PE 15's south end. I'll also post separately about what looks to be a four-mile realignment of part of TCH 1, still in rough grading stage and unlikely to be opened this year. That will wait until I can dig into the story, next week (I'm not yet out of Canada, now in a rush to get home).
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froggie



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noticed you edited your lists. My sources for PE 343 are the photos I took along PE 342 and PE 3.
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yakra



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMSV around PEI has been updated with imagery from August and September 2013.
This means another round of researching and editing the OP...
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yakra



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've edited my lists upthread with new info from the recent GMSV imagery updates.
Colored text indicates changes I've made or am considering.

I'll update this post with a list of changes to submit:
canpe.csv; canpe_con.csv
PE2: PE183 point added
PE6: PE25A -> WestCovRd
PE11: PE183 point added; +CenSt -> PE121
PE14: PE146 point added; BackSetRd -> PE156
PE116: Extended E from PE1 to PE246
PE121: Route added
PE125: Extended E from PE2 to end of pavement
PE143: PE146_E & PE146_W added
PE144: PE146 point added
PE146: Extended W from PE148 to PE14
PE155: ChuViewRd point deleted
PE156: Extended N from BackSetRd to PE14
PE162: Truncated from the shore to PE12
PE168: Truncated from 46.732224, -64.015950 to the (former) shaping point
PE183: Route added
PE212: Extended S from PE1 to change in pavement/centerline striping
PE224: NewLonRd -> PE241
PE236: Extended S from RoyRd to BelRd
PE241: Extended W from NewLonRd to PE224
PE246: PE116 point added
PE311: PE344_S added; LauBackRd deleted; PE344 -> PE344_N
PE342: PE343 point added
PE343: Extended N from PE3 to PE342; point order reversed
PE344: Extended S from PorRd to PE311


I've also added PE121 and PE183, based on the signage found in the PEI route mystery thread.

I'm a bit wary of a couple of the extensions, E.G. PE156 and PE241, the way PEI seems to sign trailblazers and leave off the [TO]. Thoughts?

Writing newsworthy update text for the PE168 truncation will be tricky. There are no stable road names or placenames to reference. Both the old and new endpoints are labeled simply, "End". Any suggestions?

In particular, for any potential edits still listed in magenta text, I am open to suggestions/comments/opinions...

Any additional comments?
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yakra



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've made the changes in the above post in my local files.

I'll keep this PEI update separate from another one for AR/ME/NB, and I still have a July 27th update for AB/AR/TX waiting to go live.

This should give us a little time to allow more comments on this thread. I'd like to hear what others have to say here.
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yakra



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The changes listed two posts upthread are in the TravelMapping HB.

PE344: There's imagery north of PE311 now. The pavement ends a little bit past the church. If I extended PE212 to the change in pavement/centerline, maybe I could do the same here. But for the moment, however, I can't be arsed.
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